Comments on: José Tomás: Fenomenal En Granada, Cortó Rabo

By: Adam

Adam — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:18:21 +0000

I'm glad to find your source. Beautiful site. I'll become your regular visitor and RSS subscriber.

By: Vladimir Terán A.

Vladimir Terán A. — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:40:23 +0000

He hecho un enlace a este post aquí:
http://cesarteran.blogspot.com/2008/06/jos-toms-n-1-del-escalafn-de-los.html
Saludos

By: regisjean

regisjean — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:03:16 +0000

I have something to add to my “over-talkative” posts on this thread.
Miki asked to me if my “knowledge” were not «beyond any simple aficion»?
José Tomas Roman was the man who killed my aficion in life.
When I saw him “toréer” (French) for the first time, I understood immediatly I had kept myself at the surface of the things, however an athlete, an intellectual, an aficionado etc. I understood directly, if somebody wants to do his (her) best in life, he (she) has to go – beyond the limit, to cross the line, and expose himself (herself) to the death.
This upsetting revelation at toreo level was also a personal revelation for myself.
I have a pathetic link with José Tomas Roman, beyond toreo dimension, from this event.
If I return on the videos, I have a statement to make : videos from upstairs as mere shits (sorry!), overhanging the scene. But we get here two fine ones :
The first = Faenas de José tomas to B. de Xajay (second page), and the second = José Tomas in Madrid, 2 orejas.
The reason is very simple : shoots from ground level, the only true thing in corridas.
I discovered the first, I had the second already on my playlist on Y-T.
In this sort of videos, I am able to figure to myself I am at the barreras, looking at the spectacle in the “fight atmosphere”. The exposition of JT on this ground is truly a great thing to grab. RJ

By: regisjean

regisjean — Thu, 29 May 2008 11:19:20 +0000

@Miki
I have seen more than 3000 toros killed in “arenas” in France and Spain, always from the barreras, so I have had ground to maturate my view of corridas. If involved into something, everybody is able to reach his own angle on the essential.
I recognize, if you are living in US, you have only Mexico to see corridas. In Europe, you have the South of France, both South-West and South-West, Spain and Portugal.
So, what can you do to maintain the afficion?
My first advice would be (but as you know, the givers of advices are not the payers – and here, it’s really true) to go to a real corrida only from time to time, even if you have not great names or great toros, BUT to buy a place at the barreras (first rank) or contre-barreras (second rank)!
This is the reason : my experience has shown to me that you are in the “atmosphere of the fight” only if you are near the actors and not overhanging them from a high place. Proximity and same level are essential. If you are in the high ranks of an arena, you are cut from the level of fight (ground level) and so far from the action than you cannot participate to the events : you are in a sort of outside TV looking at a video. In the first ranks, you have always not only wealthy persons who are lusting to be seen, but real afficionados, and the atmosphere is attentive. Buy a place in the shades (not in the sun!), to be really at ease. A place in the first ranks has to be bought in advance, and is quite expensive, I acknowledge. But it is the price to be paid to be “IN” the action.
My second and last advice is the following : when you are about to see only one corrida from time to time, do not allow yourself to wish it to be an absolute, because you have paid for this rare occasion. If you are attentive to the “matter” of the things, to the truth, there is always something to see, to learn and to appreciate, even in the most boring corrida of all times. You will not be “transported”, but you will be able to enter into the spirit of the fight : even a dull corrida, with boring toros and boring toreros, is something real – a real fight.
I am really too long, here! To see corridas in “real” from times to times will give you what not a single video can give you : the real atmosphere of the fight, with a panoramic point of view. The dramatic scene on which you focus stands out a peripheral backside of terraces, people, sun and shade, sound vibrations, odors, clouds in the sky… So you have an effect of deepness, of “relief”, you cannot have in a video, but you may restitute for yourself by imagination is you have memories of real corridas.

@Bruno
I agree. JT arouses the passions because of the stakes of his toreo, exposed and true. I remember in his beginnings three quarters of arenas didn’t understand the deepness of his toreo. It took time for him to “rip the screen”, and now many good toreros appear boring with regard to him.
Fine statement in your post, of JT crossing the line in each sequence.
Even if it may be an atmosphere of football stadium in arenas of Mexico, to be in the first ranks is a guarantee of quietness and concentration. Because great toreros were or are Mexicans (I have appreciated Cesar Rincon, at his summit), and “globalisation” has Spanish toreros to fly to Mexico. So, great corridas occur in Mexico, and there are true aficionados (like yourself!).

@Gypsy
The kill is the supreme suerte, in a corrida. It deserves the respect.
I will say it again (I am a very monotonous guy) : have a place in the first ranks! It’s only here that you are able to measure how a toro is high in comparison of a man! And the man has to pass over the toro to kill him. If you are near the scene and at same level, everything get an extraordinary “relief”, you grab the challenge truely, and you will be able to capture the commitment of a torero or his escape laterally, and the quality of his work before. If he has not settled his domination, the toro cannot be fixed, or has the head far too high, or is looking at the man and not at the muleta etc. Whatever that may be, even a bad kill in noisy background is something captivating which “switch off” the sounds.

By: Miki

Miki — Wed, 28 May 2008 20:52:10 +0000

@RJ
Well, what should I do then? I am aware that many bullfights nowadays are boring, but well, i cannot help, I love the feast for all my senses there… I am quite addicted to it since I am a child. I guess I am very lucky because this way I can still have my bullfight pleasure!
But of course I understand the frustration of real aficionados, like you. You have such a wonderful and “still tremendous” way to write about it, I almost don’t need to see it for real! Your knowledge seems to be beyond any simple aficion, am i right? Anyway, I am looking forward to read much more from you!

@Gipsy
I have been in a corrida in Mexico city too, about 28 years ago. I don’t remember having noticed such a behaviour there. The only thing was that at the end of the corrida, before the death of the sixth bull, everybody started to leave. the reason being that it is such a big arena that if they all leave at te same time, a big chaos follows! It was by the way the first time that i saw a woman bullfighter, I don’t remember her name…
I really don’t understand what you describe, the estocada being for me too a moment when I stop breathing… and I thought everybody else too…
Nice to meet an American aficionado! And like you I find it wonderful to have found a place where one can speak about out this wonderful obsession wtihout being judged as a bad person!

By: Bruno

Bruno — Wed, 28 May 2008 20:46:12 +0000

Gypsy,
Thank you for your kind words and Welcome to DBB.
As for the Mexico City crowd getting up and wandering off, its ignorance of the Mexican crowds. I’m Mexican American so racism is not my angle. That being said let me explain. I grew up going to Corridas in Tijuana and Mexicali. I have seen the drunkenness, flinged bras, cat calls and endless buffoonery. This is common throughout Mexico, worse on the border towns. This can be found in Spain too. I was at a corrida in Segovia in 2006. There were drunks, chicas, whistling and fights. I bought a cheap seat that day. The one difference I’ve seen in Spain (Alicante, Haro, Madrid, Barcelona, Segovia, etc) is when the Matador lines up for the suerte suprema, even the drunks are shushing everyone. Its so cool to hear the echo of someone shushing from the other side of the plaza. Of course that respect is almost always paid to the first estocada. Pinchazos throw out any short of formality. In Mexico, it constant movement, during the whole corrida. Most fights are because of alcohol or savy aficionados telling the villamelones to shut the fuck up. This is the very reasons I’d rather save my money and fly to spain to attend 3, 4 or 5 corridas than attend all the corridas 20 minutes from my house. Its not worth the aggravation and $4 a gallon of gas

By: Gypsy

Gypsy — Wed, 28 May 2008 19:07:38 +0000

Wow, Thanks so much for this blog, Bruno! The corrida is a lonely obsession in America and a frusturating one without the funds to travel. Also a slow and ponderous obsession when you don’t speak Spanish. It’s very refreshing to have a place (DBB) to come and read – in English – about it.
To Miki, I’ve seen the estocada on youtube – I think that some people probably don’t include it in their videos for fear of having them pulled though.
I have a question though – I’ve only ever been to one corrida and that was in Mexico City in Feb. Every time a matador began to prepare for the estocada the crowd would get up and mill about – it was so weird, it was as if they had no interest in seeing it. For me it was a very suspenseful moment but for many in the crowd it was the moment best suited for going to the bathroom or just stretching their legs. Does anyone know why that is?

By: regisjean

regisjean — Wed, 28 May 2008 09:02:59 +0000

Thanks, Miki.
I think from these videos Bruno was kind to share that we have not completely the “visual essence” of JT’s toreo, because he has a lot of “bad guys” (tough toros) in front on him. One notably who is always shifting his attention, from the muleta to JT : see the danger! So – JT shows himself quite more “agitated” than he is accustomed to be when he can settle his domination.
Some ancient videos, of his first period, or of last year (his re-apparition), captured better his art at his summit. Notably one at Malaga, where, after a very hard domination sequence on some bad guy, he managed to “cite” the toro from about 25 meters, without moving a single finger, only because he was here standing still, the cloth (muleta) behind him, the body fully exposed without lure. And the toro walks towards him, and walks, then accelerates, then charges, and he continues to be entirely still, doing nothing, and that’s only when the toro is on him that he does the pass, and what pass, a left natural one from behind with the right hand grabbing the cloth behind his back (which gives an impression of half pendulum move, from down to up ; and still not moving at all succeeds to have the toro return charging from behind, and he does the pass back to the toro, without looking at him, and hop! a new natural against front charge etc. The toro moves to and fro, and he does not move from his sitio. He had the chance the toro had deep charges and was not returning on himself immediately ; but this “chance”, that was he who had build it, not switching off the toro, but allowing him to have “gas”.
This sort of faena – a torero has to go to the mine to find it, but when it works, you have the pure essence of what I have called «still tremendism», JT shares as a style of toreo with Manolete (and Paco Ojeda in his time, in profile positions like Manolete, was a specialist of it too).
JT is not a violonist of toreo, i.e. music with a “sound sheet”, legato ; he is a pianist playing sonatas, and each pass is a distinct note.
He is attached to an “articulate” toreo, while esthetes of toreo seek flowing of movement, to give an impression of continuity, of dance between the torero and the toro ; and where gladiators seek a global “tumult of events”, an overall atmosphere of violence.
Be careful, Miki, if returning to corridas, many many many are boring, or dull, or average. Eg. I have not the impression this year San Isidro in Madrid was a very great “vintage”.
Yours RJ

By: Miki

Miki — Wed, 28 May 2008 06:45:56 +0000

This is a fantastic comment, Regis!
I adore the expression “still tremendism”, in itself, and as opposition to the sweetness and esthetism.
I never saw Jose Thomas, but from what I can guess on the video, it is a terribly accurate description of the effect on me of his bullfighting art. Art in both senses, of course: the permanent and the impermanent one!
It has been a long time since I have been to a bullfight, or look at one on the tv, but you make me want to come back, and this is an extraordinary achievement…
I have heard many commentators, have read many criticas taurinas, haven listened to many aficionados, but honestly, I never heard one transcending my bullfight enthusiasm in words, like YOU do.
Un immense merci!

By: Bruno

Bruno — Wed, 28 May 2008 00:24:46 +0000

I had something written up, but yesterday being Memorial Day here in the States, I wasn’t in any condition to finish. I’ll get to finishing my thoughts on JT as well as catching up on San Isidro…